Simon Hooper, better known as @father_of_daughters, is Instagram's most beloved dad! Along with his midwife wife Clemmie, @mother_of_daughters, Simon has brought a whole new level of awareness around pregnancy, birth, and parenthood, sharing his family life and fatherhood experiences with his one million followers. I am obsessed with his content, just check out this video.
Simon's book, Forever Outnumbered (Or "DADLIFE" in the US), is a must read for mothers and fathers-to-be.
I asked Simon his advice on how to be a great pregnancy and birth partner, and learned SO MUCH from our conversation. I cannot wait to read his book. Enjoy our interview!
NS: Thinking back to the first time your wife Clemmie was pregnant, did you feel prepared going into it since she is a midwife, or was it a completely new experience?
FOD (Father Of Daughters): The first time around it was definitely a new experience, a bit of a shell shock! I think I made the assumption that because Clemmie is a midwife that maybe she'd be able to do it all and I just learn along the way? But that's not the reality.
Clemmie did earmark pages in books for me to read, I think I read some of them but a lot of them collected dust on the side because I'm quite a pragmatic person and I learn by doing rather than reading. Some of the things did actually help, such as the childbirth classes we attended beforehand. I got dragged into this breastfeeding workshop where all the dads were staring at each other like rabbits caught in a headlight.
The bit where you learn the most is actually the days running up to the labor, especially during preparation for labor. You speak to the midwives on a very regular basis, but communication is usually between the midwife and the mother. Communication between the partners almost come second, you're not really included in it. Some of the terminology that was used kind of just went straight over my head.
I should have asked more questions the first time around, but I didn't feel like I could because I didn't want to come across as stupid or someone who hasn't done the work that they were supposed to do. But I think when we went into labor, it is natural that you want to care for the person who is in discomfort. We've had some understanding of our birth preferences, I knew that Clemmie wanted to have a water birth, I knew that we were trying to have an active labor because she is a proponent for that—she didn't want to be on her back in stirrups. I picked up a lot of this stuff by osmosis from being around Clemmie, but for a lot of partners that might not be as easy to do.
NS: On a day to day basis, what did your wife needed help with the most when pregnant?
FOD: Clemmie is a bit of a clean freak! Especially when we got to the nesting phase and everything had to be ship-shape, I did have to start picking up my game in terms of just general household admin. I wrote about this in my book as well—things partners need to step up and take control of. I made sure that she didn't have to do those things because in the end she was the one who was carrying another life around. We also had very supportive friends who would go do the groceries for us and make us food that we could freeze, having friends around made things easier for the both of us.
NS: Did you get more experienced with each pregnancy?
FOD: Yes. They were all different, obviously. Anya (their eldest) was a surprise, I was in a different headspace all together. Marnie (their second) was a planned pregnancy so I knew what was going to happen, I threw myself into it more, I read more, I learned more. I was much more active about the things we had learned as well. So by the time we got to the twins, I knew what labor was, I've been through the "transitioning" phase and I wasn't SO scared anymore.
In Clemmie's first birth, the midwives left the room during labor to give us some quiet time but that's when Clemmie transitioned and the change happened; she made a noise and I thought she was dying!! I pulled the emergency cord and people ran in. She still can't believe I did that but I was scared and I didn't know what was going on! And that was that cord was the only tool available to me.
Eventually I got used to the whole birth process. With the twins we did hypnobirthing and massage; it was a lot more about breathing and being in touch with your body, controlling the pain. I knew what I could do to keep Clemmie calm.
NS: What type of massage are you talking about?
SH: We had a hypnobirth teacher who taught us. It's not a rigorous rubbing or anything, it's a relaxing massage, up and down the back and around the sides, releasing pressure points. The breathing was actually the most important thing. Clemmie was listening to a hypnobirthing CD as well in the early stages of labor, which helped her calm down and relax.
There were times where the most important think I could do was to be hands off. You can be a bit too much, fussy and in your face "What can I do for you?", when actually what you need is be in your own zone. That's what I learned throughout the processes—when I am needed and when I am not.
NS: That makes me think of doulas. Are they also popular in the UK?
SH: Yes, we had a doula for the twins, Clemmie has a lot of doula friends. She made us a lavender scent to use during the birth of the twins. It was an extra pair of hands as well so I could be a bit more involved in the actual birth process. Actually, Clemmie was hanging off me when Anya was born, and I was almost in the pool with Marnie, I have always been involved. But the doula just allowed us to not to have to worry about all the little bits and allowed me to actually dedicate my focus on Clemmie when she needed me.
NS: If a first-time expecting partner had five minutes with you, what advice would you give them to fully support their pregnant wife?
SH: First one, I mention this in my book as well, is being involved in the planning of birth preferences, and understanding what they mean. There are connotations to every decision that's being made and you need to understand what those decisions are, because if your wife is not in a fit state to make those decisions, you need to understand what that's going to mean. You need to take time to understand things and not just sit there and nod as they happen.
The second big learning is to get involved in some kind of active birth class beforehand and learn about the physical nature of birth. A lot of births you see on TV are on your back in stirrups, and that is not the best way. But I think that's men's go-to image of what childbirth looks like. Women in pain, on their back, in stirrups. You just got to get away from that. I was lucky enough to have Clemmie to help me understand that, but not a lot of partners do.
The other thing is making sure that you ask questions to the health professional about these things that you heard of, but don't know about. Don't be afraid to ask questions.
NS: These are such good insights. I really think we need to spend more time educating the fathers or the partners about birth, they are going to be there!
SH: I think so. There should be information developed for the dad as well. A lot of the information or the pamphlets you are given are for moms to read, but there's nothing written for the dad to take away. If you're given a pregnancy book it's usually about how the mother's body is changing over the 40 weeks, and you may get a very small paragraph on "the partner should be doing this or that", but it's a little dismissive. There should be something written and given specifically to the dad or the partner, the person not going through the labor, that's something we need to be doing more of.
NS: When was the first time you have seen a birth? Was it with your first daughter or through Clemmie's work?
SH: No no, the first time was when Clemmie was hanging off my belt in active labor and then Anya came into the world. That was it, I was the first one among my friends to have children as well, so we started relatively young. So I've been the one to field questions... actually, that would be another tip. Guys aren't particularly great at talking about stuff, but that's changing. That's one of the things I am trying to do with my Instagram account and the book as well is to talk more openly about my personal experience. If you realize that someone else is going through it, maybe you'll be okay with talking about it too. I encourage dads to ask questions to their friends or to others who they've met at antenatal classes, dads who have been through this previously, to actually talk about things.
I've done a series of posts on men's mental health as well, talking about postnatal depression in men because they didn't know how to deal with the changes in their lives, they didn't know any of that was coming. It's something that we need to get over and be a little bit more open.
NS: I have yet to read your book, Forever Outnumbered, I bet you have a ton of gems in there!
SH: You'll get a lot of points from the book, seriously, there is quite a few learnings in there that I have been through. There is a whole section about what dads need to do in the lead up to birth, what you can be actually involved in.
Things like packing the labor bag sounds very basic but it is one of the things that we found out with our first child. Clemmie would say "Could you go get me something from the labor bag?", and I'd just go to the bag, not knowing where anything was, and just taking it upside down on the floor, which gave her so much anxiety. So then I learned the process where if I packed the bag before we go to the hospital, I know where everything is! So I don't have to rummage around and I can just get to it straight away.
Making a CD or a playlist, being involved in the music selection process is also key. I made a terrible mistake with our first one, I didn't know the point of having a nice/calming/relaxing kind of music during labor so I did a mix of house music, almost like pregame kind of music. Clemmie was like "Why in the world would you do this? It's awful!" So these are the things that partners need to know about.
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